Curse

Shenbear · Oct 18, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

VDZ, once again, The issue is most likely NOT the servers but the connection between your computer and the server. If it lags more on the weekends, it's because of the way the internet is structured.

Think about it this way:

We are all in a box. Anet's servers are on one side and we are on the other. A wall separates us from the servers. The wall has a single opening in the center. People are trying to get from one side of the box to the other through the small opening.

This is a very basic metaphor for what's happening. The servers most likely are not the issue (as different areas are run on different servers and the entire player base is not cramming into a single area thus overloading a single server server (exception being during holiday events... THAT is server-side lag)). The wall with the hole in in represents the capacity of whatever hub the GW servers are connected to. ALL of our information must pass through this hub, which is NOT owned by Anet, but most likely by a telephone company.

Thus, it does not matter how "badass" your computer is.... Unless your computer is a piece of crap (like my tower, which takes a year and a half to load into ANY american district... that's computer side lag). Server side lag would result in massive d/c or lagspikes for entire teams loaded into an instance. If one or two people are lagging out, it's because of a backlog at an internet hub. It's not a matter of how "shitty" the GW servers are, because it is obvious they can handle WAY more load than you give them credit for (180 districts for a finale event shows us that that is true... When you get lag there, it's a good chance that the servers are starting to reach their capacity).

So, once again, stop randomly throwing blame around. If you want to bitch, contact your ISP and tell them to upgrade their equipment.

byteme! · Oct 18, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenbear

VDZ, once again, The issue is most likely NOT the servers but the connection between your computer and the server. If it lags more on the weekends, it's because of the way the internet is structured.

Think about it this way:

We are all in a box. Anet's servers are on one side and we are on the other. A wall separates us from the servers. The wall has a single opening in the center. People are trying to get from one side of the box to the other through the small opening.

This is a very basic metaphor for what's happening. The servers most likely are not the issue (as different areas are run on different servers and the entire player base is not cramming into a single area thus overloading a single server server (exception being during holiday events... THAT is server-side lag)). The wall with the hole in in represents the capacity of whatever hub the GW servers are connected to. ALL of our information must pass through this hub, which is NOT owned by Anet, but most likely by a telephone company.

Thus, it does not matter how "badass" your computer is.... Unless your computer is a piece of crap (like my tower, which takes a year and a half to load into ANY american district... that's computer side lag). Server side lag would result in massive d/c or lagspikes for entire teams loaded into an instance. If one or two people are lagging out, it's because of a backlog at an internet hub. It's not a matter of how "shitty" the GW servers are, because it is obvious they can handle WAY more load than you give them credit for (180 districts for a finale event shows us that that is true... When you get lag there, it's a good chance that the servers are starting to reach their capacity).

So, once again, stop randomly throwing blame around. If you want to bitch, contact your ISP and tell them to upgrade their equipment.

You sir/ma'am are intelligent. Far more intelligent then I when it comes to these things and what you are saying makes absolutely perfect sense in many cases.

vdz · Oct 18, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

And that's why i never experienced lag before. And no, my internet provider didnt change a freaking thing. And if they did, they made it faster, not slower.

Your story is nice but it's not where the problem lies.

byteme--> /sigh . My computer most likely blows your away, so cut the crap.

byteme! · Oct 18, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

@vdz So exactly what are you trying to get across then? We're all brain storming here to try and figure out what the issue is. So far you've shot us all down and told some of us to "cut the crap". We're trying to contribute to your thread, you could at least be polite about it or don't start such a thread. If you don't like or agree with what I have to say then maybe you should "cut the crap" because someone else may find it useful. It's not like I'm making this stuff up for my own amusement. I have better things to do. Kthxbye and good luck on your venture.

I don't care what you wrote before my post and what I wrote after. My original post was not directed specifically to you. It was a general comment to "everyone" who may be having issues with lag. You had to get all personal with it. This post however is directed towards you. I even added the "@vdz" to make it clear.

Shenbear · Oct 18, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

@ byteme! - Thanks. I am touched by your compliment

@ vdz -- I'm not sure if I'm making my point as clear as I am trying to make it...

Unless you take a year and a half to load into districts, the issue is not computer side.

Unless you are trying to load into a finale event during holiday, it is not server capacity because different sections of GW are hosted on different servers. If you don't believe me, check the IP on the area loading screen when you go different places. Because there are many servers for many areas and because (unless it is a holiday) the entire GW population isn't trying to cram themselves into a single server, the likelihood that it is a server-side issue is pretty damn small. The mere fact that Anet is ABLE to host as many districts as they need for holiday events speaks volumes about what the servers are capable of handling.

That being said, most of the internet exists outside your home cable connection to the internet. Yes, you may not have changed anything. Yes you may not get lag playing a different game, but that is not indicative of an issue server side. It is indicative of issues with the infrastructure somewhere between your computer and the GW servers.

We KNOW that ISPs have been trying to limit bandwidth. If that is not the issue, then the culprit is inadequate infrastructure somewhere between the GW servers and your computer. As I stated in my first post, there is a significant (in terms relative to the speed of fiber optics) time delay in getting your information routed to where it needs to go.

How Stuff Works does a much better job of explaining the structure of the internet than I do... so if you want to take a look go here: http://www.howstuffworks.com/interne...astructure.htm

Routers are the real culprit. Every time your signal needs to go through a router (and there are many, many that your signal goes through to get to the GW servers (unless you live near the servers)) the signal is slowed down because it must be processed by the router. Since routers are processing much more data than your own little request to the GW servers, and because of the protocols that the routers must go through in order to send your packet of data to the next router, your actual connection is not going to be what it would be if you were directly connected to the GW servers.

This being said, the real limiting factor (assuming that you have a good computer) is the infrastructure of the internet. The slowdown may or may not be occurring near your house. If it is, it is probably your ISP. If it isn't, it's a different ISP's fault... or the company that owns the router in question's fault.

Ultimately QQing at Anet doesn't get anything solved because it -isn't their fault-

I hope this explains it a bit better.

P.S. I'm not getting out the ruler and comparing silicon genitalia with you. Ultimately, your computer only determines your FPS and how long it takes for you to load into districts when the limiting factor is how fast your comp can process and display the images on your screen. It has nothing to do with non-transitional lag.

DarkKnight · Oct 18, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

To Be Honest this should be expected a bit. Arena Net Makes very little money when they have no new Release. Meanwhile they are spending huge amounts of money on GW 2. There are other games that tkae a whole 24 hours period to clean their servers up and those gmaes charge monthly fees.

Servers are complicated machines that tend to disorganize themselves over time and servers also tend to break down muhc faster then your average PC. Its not like they jsut shut it down and defrag for 45 min or something. Ill give them credit for keeping it as good as its been for this long with no monthly fee.

FengShuiDove · Oct 18, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Well, I'm going to forgo mentioning all of the experts that know much more about internet connections and simply say that I'm glad I know the problem is not unique to me. It's been reeeeeeeeeeediculous recently.

Chthon · Oct 18, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

I've spent quite a few minutes staring at a ping plot this week.

It's not a-net. I'm seeing more crap than usual from my own ISP. I'm seeing some crap from Alter.net, a-net's ISP. But mostly I'm seeing a whole bunch of crap with Level3, a major "backbone" provider. I'm not seeing anything where a-net's servers are adding unusual or unacceptable latency on top of the time already taken to reach the final alter.net router. If you want to blame someone, blame Level3.

presearing addict · Oct 18, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenbear

Unless you take a year and a half to load into districts, the issue is not computer side.

Unless you are trying to load into a finale event during holiday, it is not server capacity because different sections of GW are hosted on different servers. If you don't believe me, check the IP on the area loading screen when you go different places. Because there are many servers for many areas and because (unless it is a holiday) the entire GW population isn't trying to cram themselves into a single server, the likelihood that it is a server-side issue is pretty damn small. The mere fact that Anet is ABLE to host as many districts as they need for holiday events speaks volumes about what the servers are capable of handling.

That being said, most of the internet exists outside your home cable connection to the internet. Yes, you may not have changed anything. Yes you may not get lag playing a different game, but that is not indicative of an issue server side. It is indicative of issues with the infrastructure somewhere between your computer and the GW servers.

We KNOW that ISPs have been trying to limit bandwidth. If that is not the issue, then the culprit is inadequate infrastructure somewhere between the GW servers and your computer. As I stated in my first post, there is a significant (in terms relative to the speed of fiber optics) time delay in getting your information routed to where it needs to go.

How Stuff Works does a much better job of explaining the structure of the internet than I do... so if you want to take a look go here: http://www.howstuffworks.com/interne...astructure.htm

Routers are the real culprit. Every time your signal needs to go through a router (and there are many, many that your signal goes through to get to the GW servers (unless you live near the servers)) the signal is slowed down because it must be processed by the router. Since routers are processing much more data than your own little request to the GW servers, and because of the protocols that the routers must go through in order to send your packet of data to the next router, your actual connection is not going to be what it would be if you were directly connected to the GW servers.

This being said, the real limiting factor (assuming that you have a good computer) is the infrastructure of the internet. The slowdown may or may not be occurring near your house. If it is, it is probably your ISP. If it isn't, it's a different ISP's fault... or the company that owns the router in question's fault.

Ultimately QQing at Anet doesn't get anything solved because it -isn't their fault-

I hope this explains it a bit better.

P.S. I'm not getting out the ruler and comparing silicon genitalia with you. Ultimately, your computer only determines your FPS and how long it takes for you to load into districts when the limiting factor is how fast your comp can process and display the images on your screen. It has nothing to do with non-transitional lag.

i have been taking a break from farming latley and playing around with some UW SC..yes you have the occasional person thet dies and blames it on lag (who REALLY Knows if thats true or not)..BUT then there are times when 4-8 people from the group get completley gamestopped for 3-20 seconds..alot of times causing the runs to fail..i could understand what you are say for a single person lagging but not people from various parts of the world..if im missing the answer to this in your post and its right in front of my facethen DOH!! but if not could you explain a bit more how this could happen to massive people (not just in the group..in our 800 man alliance) at the exact same time

i will add this..everyone does not experience it..from what i have seen the ones that do outnumber the ones that dont by about 75%

vdz · Oct 18, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

There you go, thats what i tried to explain with fact number 2 and 3.
I mean in a way Shenbear your arguments do make sense, however they dont explain why people from various parts of the world (with not the same ISP) lag and get disconnected at the same time.

You could have been right if it was only me lagging and disconnecting about.
But its not only me, its a majority of the players. So your story then, doesnt make sense and doesnt cover the issue what it's really about.

Dr.Jones · Oct 18, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

yea every time i have played i have gotten massive lag spikes 15k each and around 500k ping and just a few months ago i was getting 20-100mps pings and i live in Seattle. so it dost take for ever for my connection to get to them. the thing i find most bothersome about this is if you confront anet they say nothing is wrong.

Onyx Blindbow · Oct 18, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

The problems are as likely caused by routing issue between you and a-net servers as well as a-net servers themselves.

Yes I have a good spec PC, I am running 20mb cable broadband so there is NO issue with bandwidth but I have also noticed a lot of lagging over the past month or two, today for instance have had 11 of the 007 codes in the past hour and lag spikes upto 21k

Now call it an obvious cry but these things do happen mostly at the weekends so either one of the chosen routes cannot operate at the bandwidth and falls over or a-net do have a server issue, the easiest way to resolve the situation is simply for a-net to have an permanent server status report on their website which would eliminate about 90% of peoples queries

Riot Narita · Oct 18, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

its not only me, its a majority of the players.

Your justification for this bold statement?

Regardless - you said you've tried International, Euro etc districts and had the same problems. I use Euro districts mst of the time, every day, and sometimes International or American... and very rarely see any problems. My guildmates (who are scattered across several European countries) rarely seem to have problems either.

This suggests to me, the problems you are seeing are caused somewhere between you and a-net, and not a-net's servers or their internet providers. And if lots of other people in different locations are seeing the same, then maybe it's one of the major backbone providers.

Cathode_Reborn · Oct 18, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Also been gettin abit more lag recently.

It usually doesn't go on for very long, but some of those lag spikes can really ruin a PvP match.

Lyndka · Oct 18, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

For my two penn'orth (or two cents worth) - my friend and I noticed that 'Lag' was bad during the Olympics and some of the end of season soccer games, it has also been laggy the last couple of weekends (in both US and European districts at times).

When I analysed the ping plot that the first log-in screen creates, the longest route times were with (what I presumed to be) Anet's ISP - some googling also revealed that they are also an internet TV provider. The timing then made 'sense' - all those folk watching big games on PC's via the internet or streaming to IP set top boxes.

As many have said - it's not Anet but the internet, and the ISP's who are upgrading infrastructure slower than the internet is growing. It's probably also the 'speed cap'/throttling that some ISP's use with customers who can't afford to pay for a 'premium' service - it chokes their customer and creates queues on the 'net side of their servers.

The solution? Have ISP's increase the base level service that reflects this years usage of ADSL/broadband and not what was envisaged 5 years ago when broadband/ADSL had just become the 'thing'.

pumpkin pie · Oct 18, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Great, some how this "sports" things is going to haunt me forever. damn you sports!

And yes, I am having lag today, I also notice that every time someone report a lag, i somehow will be spike 2-3 days later. Except, off course, on Double AB weekends. Thats the crazy time when you get 200k pings.

Just look into it please Arena Net and do something about it.

JeniM · Oct 18, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Oh joy this is bad news on the run up to the Halloween Event.

I must admit I get terrible lag too and it seems to come at random times. I can have a huge battle with lots of people dying and using lots of special affects and my ping stays at 100-200. Then I'll be walking along a quiet area and get thrown around the map or disconnected with my "Last ping" saying 20,000ms.
Unless my maths is wrong thats actually 20second lag...to me thats when I decided that GW is now unplayable, when I get disconnected/errors every 5mins.

I'll put good money on never making past the character select screen during the up coming event.

pumpkin pie · Oct 18, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

update: i can't even login now. got 007 after I click play/double click character.

Zorgy · Oct 18, 2008, 01:02 PM // 13:02

"...Seriously, what is the point of this thread?..."

Seriously are you serious

?????????

Last night while abing I had two SERIOUS freezes that all of US encountered.

Two weeks now that from time to time lots have lag problems, another thread already exists.

Regina why dont you investigate a bit further?????

Thank you ANET for your cooperation.

vdz · Oct 18, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

The people with no problems do not complain, and are not heard. Of course the complainers appear to be the "majority", they are the only ones with something to say.

The places I go, I have heard very few people complaining. This includes a fair amount of time in Kamadan, and I spent 2-3 hours every day (sometimes more), in Lutgardis for the last 4.5 months doing HFFF (with local chat on).

Now you're telling me what goes on in my own guild? You really are an arrogant ***, aren't you?

I don't hear people in the guild talking about problems on the scale you're talking about. And like I said, it is pretty unusual when I see such problems myself.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread? Did you start it just so that you could shout down people who respond with the best intentions?

When i'm playing in teams and let's say 6 out of 8 are lagging at the same time or freezes (which mostly result) in a disconnect it's not hard to state that the majority is suffering from this.

HFFF'ing is soloing so ofcourse you dont see or speak with anyone at that moment, you're most likely in a hurry to storm the portal to zone out again.
And that place isnt really that populated. Kamadan, the people there are to busy with selling or buying stuff to even notice the lag spikes. So you probably wont hear that much if people are suffering from lag spikes for a short time period.

Go play with teams, do some UW or FOW with others instead of soloing or h/h ing. Go do some AB. You might get shocked, cause ye people are actually suffering from lag spikes more often these days.

What is the point of you posting in this thread if you clearly dissagree with the fact that people do lag more often these days? I know you arent experiencing lag but that doesnt mean others don't. Next to that i havent heard any solutions from your side? You're just qqing at those whom lag saying that its their fault. Who's arrogant again?

Maybe you should have thought more carefully about the fact that this person (being me) is in the same guild as you. oops?